1 00:00:05,430 --> 00:00:03,189 on this episode of skeptico 2 00:00:06,869 --> 00:00:05,440 the show about hypnosis 3 00:00:09,830 --> 00:00:06,879 history 4 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:09,840 and how hitler became such a mesmerizing 5 00:00:22,070 --> 00:00:11,050 speaker 6 00:00:25,910 --> 00:00:23,750 so on this episode i have an interview 7 00:00:28,870 --> 00:00:25,920 coming up with jimmy fallon gong yes 8 00:00:31,269 --> 00:00:28,880 that is a pseudonym but anyways jimmy 9 00:00:34,069 --> 00:00:31,279 who is the host of a podcast called 10 00:00:35,830 --> 00:00:34,079 program to chill has done a terrific job 11 00:00:39,030 --> 00:00:35,840 of uncovering some 12 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:39,040 super interesting important history that 13 00:00:43,350 --> 00:00:40,960 connects to a lot of the things that we 14 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:43,360 talk about here on skeptico 15 00:00:47,270 --> 00:00:45,680 so let me see if i can lay out a little 16 00:00:50,310 --> 00:00:47,280 bit of the backstory 17 00:00:52,869 --> 00:00:50,320 having to do with hitler and world war 18 00:00:55,270 --> 00:00:52,879 one so yes hitler was in world war one 19 00:00:57,590 --> 00:00:55,280 he was this foot soldier frontline kind 20 00:00:59,590 --> 00:00:57,600 of guy and near the end of the war he's 21 00:01:00,950 --> 00:00:59,600 in the bunker and they get hit by 22 00:01:02,950 --> 00:01:00,960 mustard gas 23 00:01:05,030 --> 00:01:02,960 and miraculously they get let out of 24 00:01:06,950 --> 00:01:05,040 this situation but him and a couple of 25 00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:06,960 his comrades are blinded from the 26 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:09,040 mustard gas common horrible thing that 27 00:01:14,469 --> 00:01:11,280 happens now all the other guys get sent 28 00:01:16,550 --> 00:01:14,479 to the medical hospital but hitler is 29 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:16,560 the one and only and this is a really 30 00:01:20,950 --> 00:01:18,640 interesting part that our guest today 31 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:20,960 jimmy fallon gong has uncovered and 32 00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:22,960 revealed i didn't know any of this stuff 33 00:01:26,469 --> 00:01:25,360 but hitler gets sent to this mental 34 00:01:27,990 --> 00:01:26,479 hospital 35 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:28,000 because when they examine him in the 36 00:01:33,030 --> 00:01:30,960 field they realize he isn't really blind 37 00:01:35,109 --> 00:01:33,040 i mean he has what you might call 38 00:01:37,749 --> 00:01:35,119 hysterical blindness 39 00:01:39,910 --> 00:01:37,759 so as history turns out he arrives at 40 00:01:43,270 --> 00:01:39,920 the mental hospital and he undergoes 41 00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:43,280 hypnosis by a guy who is at this point 42 00:01:48,230 --> 00:01:45,600 probably one of the world leaders in 43 00:01:49,830 --> 00:01:48,240 hypnosis and happens to be having an 44 00:01:52,230 --> 00:01:49,840 ongoing kind of 45 00:01:54,389 --> 00:01:52,240 feud one upsmanship kind of thing with 46 00:01:57,270 --> 00:01:54,399 his other hypnotist where he's showing 47 00:02:01,429 --> 00:01:57,280 him how he to really do it and he has 48 00:02:03,910 --> 00:02:01,439 this hypnosis session with hitler 49 00:02:06,069 --> 00:02:03,920 that probably changes history forever 50 00:02:07,350 --> 00:02:06,079 here's how jimmy describes it in his 51 00:02:11,430 --> 00:02:07,360 show 52 00:02:13,830 --> 00:02:11,440 on the 6th of november in 1918 dr edmund 53 00:02:16,070 --> 00:02:13,840 forster ordered hitler to his consulting 54 00:02:17,270 --> 00:02:16,080 room after examining the patient's eyes 55 00:02:19,430 --> 00:02:17,280 carefully 56 00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:19,440 forster replaced the instruments in his 57 00:02:24,470 --> 00:02:22,080 case and blew out the candles your eyes 58 00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:24,480 have been terribly damaged he told him 59 00:02:28,390 --> 00:02:25,920 regretfully 60 00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:28,400 i should never have assumed that you a 61 00:02:34,470 --> 00:02:31,440 pure aryan a good soldier a knight of 62 00:02:35,750 --> 00:02:34,480 the iron cross first class would lie or 63 00:02:38,229 --> 00:02:35,760 deceive 64 00:02:40,229 --> 00:02:38,239 everyone has to accept their lot the 65 00:02:43,670 --> 00:02:40,239 individual is powerless where fate is 66 00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:43,680 concerned miracles do not happen anymore 67 00:02:47,830 --> 00:02:45,280 he paused before adding more 68 00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:47,840 optimistically but that goes only for 69 00:02:51,350 --> 00:02:49,440 the average person 70 00:02:52,710 --> 00:02:51,360 miracles still happen frequently to 71 00:02:54,630 --> 00:02:52,720 chosen people 72 00:02:56,869 --> 00:02:54,640 there have to be miracles and great 73 00:02:58,390 --> 00:02:56,879 people before whom nature bows don't you 74 00:02:59,910 --> 00:02:58,400 agree 75 00:03:00,949 --> 00:02:59,920 now as you're about to hear in this 76 00:03:03,350 --> 00:03:00,959 interview 77 00:03:05,589 --> 00:03:03,360 we can't be sure that this is verbatim 78 00:03:08,309 --> 00:03:05,599 exactly what happened but we have a lot 79 00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:08,319 of good circumstantial evidence pointing 80 00:03:13,190 --> 00:03:11,120 for the fact that this is very very 81 00:03:14,710 --> 00:03:13,200 close to what happened jimmy will 82 00:03:16,869 --> 00:03:14,720 explain that later in this interview and 83 00:03:18,949 --> 00:03:16,879 then of course you can listen to his 84 00:03:21,750 --> 00:03:18,959 many many hours on the subject where 85 00:03:23,509 --> 00:03:21,760 he's delved into it on his own podcast 86 00:03:25,910 --> 00:03:23,519 but back to the story because you get 87 00:03:28,710 --> 00:03:25,920 what's going on this is quite a feat 88 00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:28,720 that this hypnotist is about to pull off 89 00:03:33,830 --> 00:03:31,440 and he's laid the hook in here he's 90 00:03:37,110 --> 00:03:33,840 gonna start reeling him in 91 00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:37,120 as you say doctor hitler meekly agreed i 92 00:03:44,149 --> 00:03:40,640 am no charlatan no performer of miracles 93 00:03:46,869 --> 00:03:44,159 dr forster went on i am a simple doctor 94 00:03:49,350 --> 00:03:46,879 but maybe you yourself have the rare 95 00:03:52,789 --> 00:03:49,360 power that occurs only once every 96 00:03:54,390 --> 00:03:52,799 millennium to perform a miracle 97 00:03:56,710 --> 00:03:54,400 jesus did this 98 00:03:58,470 --> 00:03:56,720 muhammad the saints 99 00:04:00,550 --> 00:03:58,480 i could show you the method by which you 100 00:04:02,550 --> 00:04:00,560 could see again despite the fact that 101 00:04:03,429 --> 00:04:02,560 your eyes have been damaged by mustard 102 00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:03,439 gas 103 00:04:07,589 --> 00:04:05,760 with your symptoms an ordinary person 104 00:04:09,429 --> 00:04:07,599 would be blind for life 105 00:04:11,429 --> 00:04:09,439 but for a person with exceptional 106 00:04:14,949 --> 00:04:11,439 strength of willpower and spiritual 107 00:04:17,590 --> 00:04:14,959 energy there are no limits scientific 108 00:04:20,629 --> 00:04:17,600 assumptions do not apply to that person 109 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:20,639 the spirit removes any such barrier in 110 00:04:25,110 --> 00:04:22,720 your case the thick white layer in your 111 00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:25,120 cornea but maybe you do not possess this 112 00:04:30,469 --> 00:04:27,440 power to perform miracles 113 00:04:32,390 --> 00:04:30,479 how can i tell said hitler 114 00:04:35,110 --> 00:04:32,400 by the way one of the reasons we suspect 115 00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:35,120 this is what happened is that back then 116 00:04:39,430 --> 00:04:36,800 people didn't really recover from 117 00:04:41,030 --> 00:04:39,440 blindness caused by mustard gas or if 118 00:04:43,830 --> 00:04:41,040 they did regain sight it was like 119 00:04:45,350 --> 00:04:43,840 regaining partial sight or clouded sight 120 00:04:47,030 --> 00:04:45,360 or something like that hitler comes out 121 00:04:49,510 --> 00:04:47,040 of it man he's got that stare you can 122 00:04:51,510 --> 00:04:49,520 see perfectly well which fits much 123 00:04:53,590 --> 00:04:51,520 better with the hysterical blindness 124 00:04:56,230 --> 00:04:53,600 kind of thing now the implications for 125 00:04:58,469 --> 00:04:56,240 this are much much much further than 126 00:05:02,390 --> 00:04:58,479 just the blindness thing because it 127 00:05:05,510 --> 00:05:02,400 really shapes hitler's understanding of 128 00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:05,520 mesmerism of the mind of mind control 129 00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:08,560 all that stuff folds into this 130 00:05:13,990 --> 00:05:11,520 experience potentially anyways that's 131 00:05:15,590 --> 00:05:14,000 something that we talk about in this 132 00:05:17,350 --> 00:05:15,600 upcoming interview 133 00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:17,360 but the other thing we talk about that 134 00:05:23,189 --> 00:05:18,800 is related 135 00:05:26,070 --> 00:05:23,199 is this idea of retracing our steps in 136 00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:26,080 history here's a clip from jimmy on that 137 00:05:29,830 --> 00:05:27,280 point 138 00:05:31,670 --> 00:05:29,840 i'm very fond of like this documentary 139 00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:31,680 it sounds pretty far afield from what 140 00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:34,960 we're talking about but it's uh room 237 141 00:05:41,110 --> 00:05:38,639 it's a creative look at the stanley 142 00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:41,120 kubrick movie the shining the little boy 143 00:05:45,909 --> 00:05:43,360 danny in the movie the shining he's lost 144 00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:45,919 in this like maze and he's running away 145 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:48,080 from his father who's going to kill him 146 00:05:52,790 --> 00:05:49,840 if he finds him 147 00:05:55,990 --> 00:05:52,800 and it's only through tracing his steps 148 00:05:56,870 --> 00:05:56,000 backwards and in walking backwards 149 00:06:08,550 --> 00:05:56,880 he 150 00:06:09,350 --> 00:06:08,560 following his own footsteps 151 00:06:11,670 --> 00:06:09,360 and 152 00:06:14,230 --> 00:06:11,680 humanity is essentially lost in a maze 153 00:06:16,710 --> 00:06:14,240 of history where everywhere you turn 154 00:06:18,870 --> 00:06:16,720 there are just massacres and 155 00:06:21,189 --> 00:06:18,880 horrible events and 156 00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:21,199 if we turn around or if we just stop we 157 00:06:26,710 --> 00:06:23,680 might get axed to death by like our 158 00:06:29,110 --> 00:06:26,720 maniac father we have to be engaged with 159 00:06:31,189 --> 00:06:29,120 history we have to 160 00:06:36,710 --> 00:06:31,199 trace it back if we ever want to make 161 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,070 [Music] 162 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:42,150 this is a super interesting interview i 163 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:44,400 really really enjoyed it i loved it so 164 00:06:48,150 --> 00:06:46,240 much that we broke the interview into 165 00:06:49,510 --> 00:06:48,160 two parts and part of the reason i did 166 00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:49,520 that is because in the second part i'm 167 00:06:53,270 --> 00:06:51,680 not so nice but that's okay you don't 168 00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:53,280 always have to be nice 169 00:06:58,150 --> 00:06:54,880 i wanted to leave this as a separate 170 00:06:59,749 --> 00:06:58,160 part because i really wanted to focus in 171 00:07:04,150 --> 00:06:59,759 on this important part of history and 172 00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:04,160 retracing the steps of history here goes 173 00:07:08,870 --> 00:07:06,080 welcome to skeptico where we explore 174 00:07:11,510 --> 00:07:08,880 controversial science and spirituality 175 00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:11,520 with leading researchers thinkers and 176 00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:13,840 their critics i'm your host alex karas 177 00:07:19,510 --> 00:07:16,400 and today i'm very excited 178 00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:19,520 to welcome jimmy fallon gong 179 00:07:23,990 --> 00:07:22,160 from gordito beach california 180 00:07:25,670 --> 00:07:24,000 to skeptico 181 00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:25,680 okay wait a minute 182 00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:29,520 falun gong isn't that that crazy chinese 183 00:07:34,309 --> 00:07:31,680 cult and jimmy fallon what's going on 184 00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:34,319 there and i've never heard of gordito 185 00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:37,440 beach i live here in california 186 00:07:43,830 --> 00:07:39,840 wait a minute that's that's a reference 187 00:07:47,189 --> 00:07:43,840 to a fictional place from a thomas 188 00:07:50,950 --> 00:07:47,199 novel what's going on here 189 00:07:54,550 --> 00:07:50,960 our guest is jimmy fallon gone i have up 190 00:07:57,270 --> 00:07:54,560 on the screen his twitter site which is 191 00:07:58,469 --> 00:07:57,280 quite exceptional i first heard about 192 00:08:00,469 --> 00:07:58,479 him from his 193 00:08:03,430 --> 00:08:00,479 really terrific podcast that we're going 194 00:08:05,350 --> 00:08:03,440 to talk about program to chill 195 00:08:06,469 --> 00:08:05,360 um where he's done an incredible job of 196 00:08:08,550 --> 00:08:06,479 digging to 197 00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:08,560 and exposing and 198 00:08:13,029 --> 00:08:11,039 allowing us to reorient ourselves to 199 00:08:15,589 --> 00:08:13,039 some really important history 200 00:08:17,990 --> 00:08:15,599 and uh it's just such a great show and 201 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:18,000 i've been glued to it for so many 202 00:08:24,309 --> 00:08:21,120 hours now that i was super excited and 203 00:08:27,749 --> 00:08:24,319 uh glad that he's agreed to come on and 204 00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:27,759 talk with us here on skeptico jimmy 205 00:08:31,029 --> 00:08:29,919 welcome to skeptico thanks for joining 206 00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:31,039 me 207 00:08:37,190 --> 00:08:34,399 excited to be here 208 00:08:40,469 --> 00:08:37,200 you're a bit of an enigma 209 00:08:43,029 --> 00:08:40,479 yeah i need any chance you can kind of 210 00:08:45,670 --> 00:08:43,039 let it down a little bit let us in 211 00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:45,680 what's going on here who is jimmy fallon 212 00:08:48,949 --> 00:08:47,040 gong 213 00:08:52,230 --> 00:08:48,959 for you absolutely 214 00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:52,240 i'll do my best to share a little bit 215 00:08:57,910 --> 00:08:53,680 um i am 216 00:09:00,070 --> 00:08:57,920 certainly private uh i think that i have 217 00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:00,080 i keep you know i stay a little more 218 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:03,040 guarded than maybe most of your guests 219 00:09:06,070 --> 00:09:03,920 but 220 00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:06,080 that's not because i'm mistrustful or 221 00:09:11,750 --> 00:09:09,760 anything i just i'm not exactly worried 222 00:09:14,389 --> 00:09:11,760 about like you know anything coming to 223 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:14,399 my employers or anything it's just it 224 00:09:19,509 --> 00:09:17,200 keeps it easier you know what i'm saying 225 00:09:23,829 --> 00:09:22,150 of course of course right simple keep it 226 00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:23,839 chill so 227 00:09:27,910 --> 00:09:25,760 right but but in terms of 228 00:09:29,750 --> 00:09:27,920 i mean i am curious 229 00:09:30,949 --> 00:09:29,760 a little bit about 230 00:09:34,630 --> 00:09:30,959 you know your background where you're 231 00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:34,640 coming from your kind of professional um 232 00:09:38,710 --> 00:09:36,480 interests and and 233 00:09:40,389 --> 00:09:38,720 who is this guy who's doing all this 234 00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:40,399 stuff 235 00:09:45,509 --> 00:09:44,160 yeah so lifelong reader pretty voracious 236 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:45,519 reader um 237 00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:48,880 professionally i'll say that i work 238 00:09:54,389 --> 00:09:51,360 associated with 239 00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:54,399 finance and fraud 240 00:09:58,310 --> 00:09:55,920 and 241 00:10:00,710 --> 00:09:58,320 uh intern i'm not associated with the 242 00:10:02,710 --> 00:10:00,720 falun gong that was a stupid name that i 243 00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:02,720 came up with and i 244 00:10:07,590 --> 00:10:05,040 did not anticipate building a brand or 245 00:10:08,630 --> 00:10:07,600 anything so that's why it's so stupid 246 00:10:09,750 --> 00:10:08,640 but 247 00:10:11,670 --> 00:10:09,760 um 248 00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:11,680 then you ought to maybe tell people who 249 00:10:15,509 --> 00:10:13,760 the falun gong are because 250 00:10:17,829 --> 00:10:15,519 you know especially given you kind of 251 00:10:19,509 --> 00:10:17,839 have some interesting 252 00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:19,519 you're this tin foil left kind of thing 253 00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:20,959 that we're going to kind of talk about 254 00:10:25,269 --> 00:10:21,680 so 255 00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:25,279 and falun gong i mean that sends us all 256 00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:27,920 for a kind of head spinner who are the 257 00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:29,200 falun gong 258 00:10:32,790 --> 00:10:31,360 i know i should honestly contemplate 259 00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:32,800 changing it but 260 00:10:38,470 --> 00:10:35,519 the falun gong are a cult and i believe 261 00:10:40,790 --> 00:10:38,480 they were banned in china oh yeah 262 00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:40,800 they are the cult that runs the 263 00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:44,480 shen yoon dance troupe that often does 264 00:10:47,910 --> 00:10:46,320 performances in cities across the 265 00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:47,920 country 266 00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:49,920 and sometimes like in places like 267 00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:52,079 seattle you can see them out 268 00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:54,480 distributing literature as well 269 00:10:59,269 --> 00:10:56,399 yeah so so you'll be approached by these 270 00:11:01,590 --> 00:10:59,279 people and you see these women in these 271 00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:01,600 ornate dresses around on a stage and 272 00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:03,200 they'll say come see the presentation 273 00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:04,959 and stuff like that and they are they're 274 00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:07,200 they're a mooney kind of thing if you've 275 00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:10,160 ever if you've ever dived into the the 276 00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:11,680 history of the moonies and the kind of 277 00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:14,399 thing it's kind of this crazy crazy 278 00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:16,800 thing but the the flip side of it is 279 00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:18,320 like you you just mentioned kind of the 280 00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,399 chinese government i mean it shows the 281 00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,839 worst or the worst of the chinese 282 00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:23,120 government too because the chinese 283 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:24,160 government 284 00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:26,880 says oh well in order to maintain social 285 00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:29,680 order and protect the people we have to 286 00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,640 ban this group you know and it's the in 287 00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:34,959 the language they use is so 288 00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:36,640 i don't know so 289 00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:39,200 crazy crazy marx's 290 00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:42,000 stuff that it it kind of sends you the 291 00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:45,200 other way it's like well they are a cult 292 00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,200 but should we be banning them and you 293 00:11:51,190 --> 00:11:48,959 know the whole thing so i i just thought 294 00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:51,200 it was kind of an interesting 295 00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:53,920 yeah and in some ways it's like a weird 296 00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,200 pairing because jimmy like i am a pretty 297 00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,680 normal person with an 298 00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:01,360 innocuous name and then there's like 299 00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:04,160 this crazy side to it so and then like 300 00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:06,079 the whole marxist element of china 301 00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,959 banning them let there in that mix 302 00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:10,480 there's a lot of 303 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:12,399 my interests all in one i guess you 304 00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:13,760 could say 305 00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:16,399 exactly exactly but not exactly in the 306 00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:18,240 way that you would take it but i don't 307 00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:20,720 want to get down too many uh blind 308 00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:22,560 alleys before we 309 00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:25,680 have a chance to just tell people about 310 00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:27,360 some of the work that you've done and 311 00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,680 the work that attracted me what you've 312 00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:31,360 chosen to do on your podcast you me is 313 00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:33,839 kind of do these deep dive multi-part 314 00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:37,040 series like who financed hitler i don't 315 00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:39,440 know you did five or six shows on that 316 00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:42,959 hours each hour is long but it it just 317 00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:45,680 provides such a depth that 318 00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,600 we've i've never heard from someone else 319 00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:49,360 and i guess i could read all the books 320 00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:51,680 that you've read and kind of synthesize 321 00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,440 all that stuff together but you really 322 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,440 put it together in just this kind of 323 00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,120 terrific way 324 00:13:01,750 --> 00:12:59,279 tell us about that and tell us about in 325 00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:01,760 particular your method kind of what 326 00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:04,160 you're trying to do there what your goal 327 00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:07,680 is and then also why the world war ii 328 00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:09,200 and the hitler's stuff we're all kind of 329 00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,079 drawn to it but why are you drawn to it 330 00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,240 yeah i mean i think that 331 00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:16,240 like a lot of people you know in the 332 00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:17,839 past couple years 333 00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,880 nazis you know weimar germany was on the 334 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:22,959 tip of a lot of people's tongues 335 00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:26,240 and in some ways rightfully so but in 336 00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:27,360 other ways 337 00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:29,279 most people who mention it or talk about 338 00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:31,120 it don't really know the history or 339 00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,800 really know what they're talking about 340 00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:34,480 and so 341 00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:39,519 reading about this period not solely 342 00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:42,000 because of current events but you know 343 00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,399 not not because of it 344 00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:46,320 and i started to pick up on these like 345 00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:49,600 weird little details that didn't really 346 00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:50,480 like 347 00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:55,760 instance the fact that hitler he's often 348 00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:58,480 framed as a failed artist which he 349 00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:01,040 absolutely is right 350 00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:03,360 he was also a police spy 351 00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:06,240 and when people tell the conventional 352 00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:07,839 history of hitler 353 00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,680 they don't often mention that they might 354 00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,680 not even know it you know 355 00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:13,440 so like 356 00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:15,279 i talk about that i talk about 357 00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:18,160 especially when hitler was hypnotized 358 00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:20,240 that was a really big incident in his 359 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:22,240 life he specifically talks about it in 360 00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:23,920 mein kampf and yet 361 00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:26,480 it's not well he doesn't 362 00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,079 exactly mention it in my conf i 363 00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:30,000 shouldn't say and so like they're all of 364 00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:31,680 these weird little details about 365 00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,000 hitler's life that nobody talks about so 366 00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:36,000 i thought that i would be the person to 367 00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,600 do that 368 00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:39,920 and i think to your credit jimmy it's 369 00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:43,360 not even just talking about it but you 370 00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:47,600 frame it up quite nicely in a very 371 00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:50,000 not beat anyone over the head with it 372 00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:51,920 but as the story 373 00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:55,199 unfolds and you let it unfold it kind of 374 00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,480 paints a different picture and we're 375 00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,560 going to connect the dots a little bit 376 00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:00,320 on to the points that you just made 377 00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:03,199 there one is the hypnosis and then two 378 00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:06,079 is this spying for the police and 379 00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,199 becoming 380 00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:09,279 an intelligent asset but but really what 381 00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:11,600 it's more about is that his connection 382 00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:13,920 to the military never really ends when 383 00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:16,079 we think it does but 384 00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:18,880 let me play this clip from 385 00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:21,040 i guess this is episode four esoteric 386 00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:24,639 nazism re-examined part one 387 00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:27,040 and the hypnosis of hitler i'll play 388 00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:28,639 this and then you can 389 00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,199 tell people about it 390 00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,120 let's talk about the interaction between 391 00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:35,600 dr forster and hitler 392 00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:38,560 before foster met hitler he knew that 393 00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,440 hitler was busy raving about the jews to 394 00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:43,440 the other patients 395 00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,000 forrester developed a plan for treatment 396 00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:49,199 by using a tremendous lie on the 6th of 397 00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:52,800 november in 1918 dr edmund forster 398 00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:54,959 ordered hitler to his consulting room 399 00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:57,600 and guided him into an upright chair 400 00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:00,560 before a table on which stood two lit 401 00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:01,600 candles 402 00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:03,519 after examining the patient's eyes 403 00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,639 carefully 404 00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:06,800 forster replaced the instruments in his 405 00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:09,440 case and blew out the candles your eyes 406 00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:11,839 have been terribly damaged he told him 407 00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:13,279 regretfully 408 00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:15,759 i should never have assumed that you a 409 00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:18,800 pure aryan a good soldier a knight of 410 00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:21,839 the iron cross first class would lie or 411 00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,120 deceive 412 00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,600 everyone has to accept their lot the 413 00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:27,600 individual is powerless where fate is 414 00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:31,040 concerned miracles do not happen anymore 415 00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:32,720 he paused before adding more 416 00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:35,199 optimistically but that goes only for 417 00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:36,800 the average person 418 00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:38,720 miracles still happen frequently to 419 00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:41,519 chosen people there have to be miracles 420 00:16:45,189 --> 00:16:43,839 and great people before whom nature bows 421 00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:45,199 don't you agree 422 00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:48,639 as you say dr hitler meekly agreed i am 423 00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,000 no charlatan no performer of miracles 424 00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:53,839 dr forster went on 425 00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:56,480 i am a simple doctor but maybe you 426 00:17:02,710 --> 00:16:59,759 yourself have the rare power that occurs 427 00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,720 only once every millennium to perform a 428 00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:04,240 miracle 429 00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:05,760 jesus did this 430 00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:08,079 muhammad the saints 431 00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:09,839 i could show you the method by which you 432 00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:12,000 could see again despite the fact that 433 00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:13,919 your eyes have been damaged by mustard 434 00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:14,880 gas 435 00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:17,120 with your symptoms an ordinary person 436 00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:18,959 would be blind for life 437 00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:20,799 but for a person with exceptional 438 00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:22,880 strength of willpower and spiritual 439 00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,600 energy there are no limits 440 00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:27,839 scientific assumptions do not apply to 441 00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:30,880 that person the spirit removes any such 442 00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:33,520 barrier in your case the thick white 443 00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,760 layer in your cornea but maybe you do 444 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:37,440 not possess this power to perform 445 00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:38,880 miracles 446 00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:41,520 how can i tell said hitler 447 00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:43,039 you know i'll cut it right there 448 00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,559 exceptional so you have to go listen to 449 00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,720 this whole episode and the ones before 450 00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:47,919 it and the ones that follow it because 451 00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:50,160 you at this point you got to be hooked 452 00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:53,840 into what's going on here so first jimmy 453 00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:56,320 you're very upfront with what this is 454 00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,799 but you kind of let us go down a little 455 00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:01,120 path what is it that you are reading 456 00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:02,400 there 457 00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,360 so that is actually from a novel by i 458 00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:08,160 think his name was ernst weiss 459 00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,520 and 460 00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:11,919 there's a really interesting story about 461 00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:14,400 that because it was a novel published i 462 00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,799 want to say in like the 463 00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:18,240 the 40s 464 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:19,200 and 465 00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:21,600 it basically tells the story because 466 00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:22,960 hitler 467 00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,559 had psychosomatic blindness 468 00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:28,640 and we know that it was psychosomatic 469 00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,960 because of basically 470 00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,880 people who went blind 471 00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:34,799 from poison gas 472 00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:36,960 would permanently go blind they wouldn't 473 00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:38,960 no one went temporarily blind unless it 474 00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:40,640 was psychosomatic 475 00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:44,160 and so hitler was treated in a mental 476 00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,840 institution and there's a lot of 477 00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:48,240 documentation for which one and that it 478 00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:50,960 was certainly because he 479 00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:52,080 like 480 00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:54,559 a lot of shell shock cases were 481 00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:56,880 they called it malingering right and so 482 00:19:01,990 --> 00:18:59,760 basically hitler had a malingering 483 00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:02,000 psychosomatic blindness and 484 00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:03,520 the way they would treat it is they 485 00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,600 would either like threaten them or they 486 00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:07,280 would just hypnotize them there really 487 00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:08,960 weren't that many good ways to treat 488 00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:11,360 ptsd back then 489 00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:12,559 or you know 490 00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:15,039 related issues 491 00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:16,640 and so basically 492 00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:19,600 there was a medical file that hit that 493 00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:22,160 hitler was hypnotized 494 00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:25,679 and that medical file became really hot 495 00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:28,400 once hitler became chancellor 496 00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,200 and people were murdered over like 497 00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:33,760 who had copies of this medical file and 498 00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:35,919 there's a whole story for 499 00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:37,679 someone sneaking it out and then they 500 00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:40,400 gave it to this novelist to publish 501 00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:42,720 and so there's this whole body of like 502 00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:44,000 novels that 503 00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:46,240 tell more truth than you would think 504 00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,600 right because 505 00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,200 they don't have that burden of 506 00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:51,440 journalism but then they can tell like a 507 00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,720 different or 508 00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:54,960 almost occluded truth which is so 509 00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:56,799 interesting to me 510 00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:59,840 yeah me too so you do an awesome job 511 00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:02,000 because so that's a fictionalized 512 00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:04,960 account we didn't have someone in there 513 00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,080 rolling tape when forrester was doing 514 00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:09,600 the session 515 00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,880 but all the evidence that we do have as 516 00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:14,640 you point out in the show 517 00:20:19,270 --> 00:20:17,280 suggests that this is exactly what did 518 00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:19,280 happen and i thought you know a couple 519 00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:21,039 of more of the details of this because 520 00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:23,679 this is such this is worth all the time 521 00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,559 that you put into it and all the work 522 00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,320 that you did and sharing it to people 523 00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,720 because this is such an important event 524 00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:32,880 as it turns out and you pointed out to 525 00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:35,200 be but a couple things i would add to it 526 00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:37,120 one forester 527 00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:40,159 the hypnotherapist and psychiatrist 528 00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,360 who's working with hitler is tops like 529 00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:45,280 tops in the world it just so happens 530 00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,000 that hitler stumbles into his mental 531 00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:50,480 hospital and this guy because he is so 532 00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:51,760 good and because the germans are kind of 533 00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:54,960 leading this mesmerism hypnotism from a 534 00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,440 medical standpoint he's like kind of 535 00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:59,679 wants to use hitler who is a nobody a 536 00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:01,760 complete nobody just some other 537 00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:04,480 ptsd soldier that shows up you know but 538 00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:06,960 he wants to show his colleagues 539 00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:09,600 that hypnosis really can work if you 540 00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:11,760 know how to do it and part of the way of 541 00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:14,240 doing it is kind of this stage magic 542 00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:16,400 kind of stuff that he does to hitler 543 00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,760 where like you know 544 00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:19,520 gosh you know like you said he hears 545 00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,600 that he's ranting on the jews so then he 546 00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,280 plays up this aryan thing to him you 547 00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:25,679 know like gosh an aryan 548 00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,120 strong man like you once in a w you know 549 00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,640 unbelievably 550 00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:32,559 powerful and meaningful when you put 551 00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:34,559 into context and then as you add 552 00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:37,600 this becomes much more than just 553 00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:40,000 a matter of his medical records it 554 00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:42,720 becomes this secret that he doesn't want 555 00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:46,480 out because like you just mentioned 556 00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:50,159 this not only affects hitler in all 557 00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:51,520 these ways 558 00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,039 that we can't even begin to estimate but 559 00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:57,280 he becomes it's part of the reason his 560 00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:59,679 speeches are being 561 00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,200 coached by 562 00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:03,760 some of the world leaders in hypnotism 563 00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,640 and mesmerism and cry he's totally on 564 00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,559 board with the thing but it also 565 00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:09,919 connects him and i want you to speak to 566 00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:13,200 this jimmy it also connects him to 567 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,000 the german military and german military 568 00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,720 intelligence or at least a faction of it 569 00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:21,039 that is an ongoing relationship that 570 00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:23,760 leads to this spying that he does and 571 00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,559 he's not the lone nut assassin that 572 00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:28,880 history has painted him out to be 573 00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,600 no for sure because during world war one 574 00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:33,600 i believe hitler was a like a lance 575 00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:36,320 corporal like not particularly high in 576 00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:38,880 the military he was essentially a nobody 577 00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:40,880 and but prior to that he was a failed 578 00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:43,600 artist so like nobody really knew who he 579 00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:44,640 was 580 00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:46,799 no reason to care about him 581 00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:47,840 but 582 00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:51,760 after world war one hitler essentially 583 00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,559 stays in the army as long as he can 584 00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:56,080 partially because 585 00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:57,679 there's 586 00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,679 you know nothing waiting for him he 587 00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,000 might as well stay partially because 588 00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:03,919 after world war one there was 589 00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:05,600 essentially like a 590 00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:08,240 series of basically revolutions in 591 00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:10,720 germany that very well could have had 592 00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:12,799 germany go the way of like the 593 00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:15,679 bolsheviks in russia right 594 00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:19,039 and so hitler found himself involved in 595 00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:20,000 this 596 00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,039 subterranean group of basically army 597 00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:25,520 officers who were fighting to keep 598 00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,919 germany from going red basically 599 00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:30,880 and so 600 00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:33,919 he was on their payroll before and after 601 00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:36,400 he quote unquote left the army 602 00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,440 but he never appears to have actually 603 00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,440 stopped working with these groups of 604 00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:43,200 people 605 00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,880 and there's all kinds of interesting 606 00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:46,960 incidents from his life like 607 00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:51,360 hitler at different points well like 608 00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:53,919 before his tradition like his parties 609 00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:56,000 rise to power he would do things like 610 00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:58,000 buy weapons 611 00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:00,400 and hand them over to the police 612 00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:03,279 he was involved in traveling like he was 613 00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:05,679 involved in the um 614 00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:08,799 oh shoot what's the name the uh fry core 615 00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:11,279 right he knew all of the players in that 616 00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:12,720 he was not 617 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:15,440 one of the top guys he was you know 618 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,320 lowered down on the totem pole but like 619 00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:20,320 he was involved in all of these things 620 00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:22,880 and so he was essentially a police 621 00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:23,919 snitch 622 00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:26,720 my words but like he was a 623 00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:29,840 asset for them and 624 00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:32,799 more or less because the the army and 625 00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:35,200 the navy were worried about germany 626 00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,679 going red they started to fund these 627 00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:39,760 interesting political groups that would 628 00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:43,360 take aspects of communism or socialism 629 00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:44,320 and then 630 00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:46,159 maybe tweak them right so like that of 631 00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,640 course is where the national socialism 632 00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,360 thing comes in and so hitler already 633 00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,200 being on their payroll already being 634 00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,880 someone they trust 635 00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:56,240 is chosen 636 00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:58,000 to head one of these groups of which 637 00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,440 there was a whole 638 00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:02,159 a whole bunch of them right 639 00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:04,640 and that is the start so 640 00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:07,039 essentially with hitler 641 00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:09,360 everybody thinks they know the story but 642 00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:12,880 he was hypnotized he was a police spy he 643 00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:15,440 was funded at every single point by 644 00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:18,400 either the german army the german navy 645 00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:21,200 or german heavy industry and so like all 646 00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:22,799 of a sudden you have a very different 647 00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:25,279 picture than what you might see on like 648 00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,559 television documentaries right and i 649 00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:30,240 think that's one of the key points 650 00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,799 because what you help in leading us 651 00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:34,400 towards is 652 00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:37,279 why is there a rewrite of that history 653 00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:38,880 because when you take those facts that 654 00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:41,279 you're putting together and then you 655 00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:44,080 contrast it with the kind of lone nut 656 00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,960 assassin picture we get of hitler 657 00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:48,400 one of the questions the deeper 658 00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:51,039 questions is why why do we want to write 659 00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,799 it that way versus the other way because 660 00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:56,559 a lot of the stuff you're talking about 661 00:26:02,149 --> 00:25:59,039 from a political sense is really rather 662 00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:02,159 ordinary stuff it's not extraordinary 663 00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:02,960 that 664 00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:06,320 the germans after world war one and 665 00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:07,600 after the just 666 00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:10,159 crushing craziness of the versailles 667 00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:13,039 treaty realized that they as a country 668 00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:13,919 had 669 00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:18,720 no future and that is a political 670 00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:21,360 reality and economic reality that they 671 00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:23,760 were facing and there were as you point 672 00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:25,120 out there's a number of different groups 673 00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:26,559 who are trying to 674 00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:28,400 jockey for position there because 675 00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:30,799 something is going to change and it's 676 00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:32,880 not a clear path towards hitler as you 677 00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:34,640 point out fairly 678 00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:36,640 in the in your show 679 00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,520 the like the industrialists for example 680 00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:41,600 they're doing what corporations do all 681 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,279 the time they're betting on every horse 682 00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,360 in the race right 683 00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,200 why do you think 684 00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:49,600 that history is written the way that it 685 00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:50,320 is 686 00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:53,440 given what you now know 687 00:26:58,470 --> 00:26:56,080 yeah i mean i think that personally 688 00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:58,480 putting everything on hitler 689 00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,720 it functions as like a scapegoat role 690 00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:02,080 right because 691 00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:03,120 then 692 00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:08,000 don't have to blame german heavy 693 00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:11,039 industry we don't have to look at 694 00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:11,919 how 695 00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,159 the army and the navy have always 696 00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:16,320 basically done this and that is true for 697 00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:19,120 just about every country so 698 00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:20,720 like 699 00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:26,080 if 700 00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:31,360 some degree of culpability including 701 00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:32,880 british banks 702 00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,760 then 703 00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:35,760 you know that is such a more complicated 704 00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,360 story we might draw some different 705 00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:40,080 conclusions from world war ii but if we 706 00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:42,240 can just say it was hitler he was 707 00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:44,000 uniquely evil 708 00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:45,360 therefore 709 00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:48,320 the story closed low note right then we 710 00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:50,240 don't have to think about it very much 711 00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:53,279 it's almost reassuring in a way but the 712 00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:55,520 truth of the matter is that a lot of 713 00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,200 people were very responsible for 714 00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:00,080 hitler's rise and it isn't just hitler 715 00:28:03,669 --> 00:28:02,559 not to say that you know he isn't guilty 716 00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:03,679 as well 717 00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:05,679 uh well not to say that he isn't like 718 00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,240 super duper guilty you know because 719 00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:10,880 because we don't want us to kind of 720 00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:14,000 wade into the holocauster kind of stuff 721 00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,960 because it's ridiculous i will go firmly 722 00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:19,440 on the record and say that yeah it was 723 00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,399 not a hoax or anything like hitler 724 00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:24,640 certainly guilty of everything he's been 725 00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,240 accused of doing it's just that his rise 726 00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,880 had a lot of players involved 727 00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,640 as well yeah 728 00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:34,480 great so then 729 00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,720 the the level three kind of thing that 730 00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:38,399 is interesting 731 00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:39,200 is 732 00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:44,559 tailwag dog kind of thing 733 00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:47,440 because t starts making some decisions 734 00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:49,919 at various points in the war that are 735 00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:51,120 completely 736 00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:54,320 kind of off the rails from a military 737 00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:56,640 from a strategic from a geopolitical 738 00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,399 standpoint and 739 00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:00,640 he kind of goes down this path that a 740 00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,919 lot of people around him and 741 00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:04,000 particularly the industrialists and the 742 00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:05,679 politicians and people in the army are 743 00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,320 going this is insane what are we 744 00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,320 how did this guy 745 00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,880 get this much power 746 00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,320 what are your thoughts 747 00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:17,039 well i mean for one thing he was super 748 00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:19,520 high on amphetamines so 749 00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:21,520 we have to take that into account and 750 00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:22,559 then 751 00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:23,679 yeah i mean 752 00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:26,000 there were certainly decisions that 753 00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,919 hitler made that i still do not 754 00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,240 understand because they didn't seem to 755 00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:32,159 work for anyone's benefit 756 00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:34,880 including his own like there were things 757 00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:36,880 that just don't make sense 758 00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:38,000 like 759 00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:44,720 they 760 00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:48,000 funded hitler's rise after before during 761 00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,480 and after certain points and jimmy 762 00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,640 expound on that expound on that like you 763 00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,720 do in the show because in a very subtle 764 00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:56,799 way they do it in a way that is 765 00:30:01,110 --> 00:29:59,039 allows them plausible deniability of it 766 00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:01,120 right they guarantee loans 767 00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:03,919 that's right they essentially like 768 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,440 like the highest banker in britain met 769 00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:09,760 with like the highest banker in germany 770 00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:11,679 and said yeah just 771 00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:14,880 pay off the nazis debt it's fine 772 00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:17,120 we got it and it was a verbal agreement 773 00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,880 like and they were meeting secretly like 774 00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:22,640 and then they they structured certain 775 00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:25,440 debts to make it so that not like no 776 00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:27,679 money was actually going they were just 777 00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:30,799 guaranteeing the guarantee of a 778 00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:33,440 guaranteed debt so it was like 779 00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:35,279 structured to keep their name off of it 780 00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:37,760 and keep them far away in fact 781 00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:38,799 but like 782 00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:41,279 if you get into the weeds of it 783 00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:44,159 yeah britain signed off on the nazi 784 00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:45,200 parties 785 00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:46,080 like 786 00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,559 having their debts covered and 787 00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:50,240 i don't know why they would do that 788 00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:52,960 because it almost immediately backfired 789 00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:55,520 and they went to war with the united 790 00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:57,360 kingdom so like 791 00:31:01,269 --> 00:30:58,640 clearly 792 00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:01,279 if this was the plan then it went 793 00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:04,640 sideways and you can draw a lot of 794 00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:07,120 conclusions from that but like 795 00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:09,679 no matter what you should probably be 796 00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:11,279 critical of 797 00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:13,600 what the banks do right that i think 798 00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:18,549 lesson to learn 799 00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:19,679 well 800 00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,279 i mean i guess that's not the lesson 801 00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:23,600 that i take away from it because 802 00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:25,679 all these business 803 00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,799 interests 804 00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:28,880 have an interest that's why it's a 805 00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,440 business interest right so 806 00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,360 you know how are they supposed to play 807 00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:35,360 it i guess is the 808 00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,159 is the question and it's it's tough to 809 00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:39,840 know either way it's it's like when you 810 00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,840 talk about the industrialists 811 00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:43,760 i i don't really know what you're 812 00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:47,200 supposed to do if you're 813 00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:49,760 like i forget the guy in the region 814 00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:52,320 who's running the coal mines 815 00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,279 in the region between germany and france 816 00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:57,440 that france has completely 817 00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:00,000 created a slave labor situation not 818 00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:01,840 letting them export the coal and this 819 00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,760 guy's even gone to the laborers to his 820 00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:06,080 workers who aren't usually aligned it's 821 00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:08,080 like look we're all screwed here i'm 822 00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:09,440 screwed as the owner of the company 823 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:12,159 you're screwed as the employee let's not 824 00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:14,320 do it let's not go along with the french 825 00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:15,039 so 826 00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,760 all these lines are very uh blurry when 827 00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:20,240 it when money is involved so i'm not 828 00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:22,399 sure that you know the line to the banks 829 00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:23,440 is like 830 00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,480 the banks the banks is it it gets people 831 00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,880 crazy in the same way it gets henry ford 832 00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:30,559 crazy and he says oh the banks well 833 00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:32,080 those are all jews so now we hate you 834 00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:33,039 it's like 835 00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:34,960 no there's no 836 00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,799 it's there's like some reality to 837 00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:40,320 the 838 00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,240 preponderance of people who happen to be 839 00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:47,039 jewish and have been kind of ostracized 840 00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:49,440 and then found a way to 841 00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:52,640 connect and stay connected and that they 842 00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:53,440 are 843 00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:55,360 dominate certain industries i mean 844 00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,960 that's just like 845 00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:58,559 that's why all the greeks own all the 846 00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:00,720 coffee shops in chicago where i was 847 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:03,760 brought up that's just how stuff is done 848 00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:04,720 but 849 00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:06,240 you know what i'm saying i i think it's 850 00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,480 it's easy to kind of take that stuff too 851 00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:10,960 far it's like oh it's the banks oh it's 852 00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,080 the industrialist well i don't know yeah 853 00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:16,640 because like at every point there's a 854 00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:18,399 bunch of lessons 855 00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:21,279 from the nazi parties rise and 856 00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:24,080 no no one thing is the answer right 857 00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:25,600 because it's like 858 00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:28,480 hitler was hypnotized that's a whole 859 00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:30,799 thing he was a police 860 00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:32,559 spy that's a thing 861 00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:35,440 henry ford funded the nazis british 862 00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,159 banks funded the nazis the german army 863 00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:40,880 and the german navy did 864 00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:43,919 uh there's a whole occult 865 00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:46,640 interest like in the nazis coming from 866 00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:49,440 like the tula society with these really 867 00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,559 weird like rosicrucian esoteric ideas 868 00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:54,720 floating in the mix there's the element 869 00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:56,960 of them just copying marxism but then 870 00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,679 like making it amenable to capital in 871 00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:01,440 general like 872 00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,279 there's so many things happening that 873 00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:05,679 there's never one answer i completely 874 00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:07,760 agree with you on that 875 00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:10,320 so one of the great stories that you 876 00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:13,440 tell us about in your podcast program to 877 00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:15,679 chill and i forget which episode this is 878 00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,839 but i think it'd be pretty easy to find 879 00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:19,520 i think it's like the first 880 00:34:24,470 --> 00:34:22,159 episode in the financing of the nazis 881 00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:24,480 and it tells about henry ford and i 882 00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:26,800 didn't know this history but 883 00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,119 he kind of has this grandiosity about 884 00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:31,679 him and he says well i'll solve this 885 00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:34,240 world war one problem i'll just take a 886 00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:35,520 big boat 887 00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:37,440 put all of my friends on it and we'll go 888 00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,520 negotiate this which 889 00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:41,919 you know in and of itself is not like a 890 00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:44,159 super bad idea because he is in a 891 00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:47,440 position to have influencers and maybe 892 00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:50,320 make some progress there but it doesn't 893 00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:53,599 turn out and the grandiosity of it is 894 00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,320 interesting because through that it 895 00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:58,880 really he kind of 896 00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:01,359 winds up in this weird anti-semitic 897 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:03,440 space like we're talking about where he 898 00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:06,400 is convinced that there is this 899 00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:09,760 jewish conspiracy against him connected 900 00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:11,599 to all these bankers who are trying to 901 00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:13,440 put him out of business who are all 902 00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:15,599 jewish i mean let's be for real you know 903 00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,920 but he makes the connection that this is 904 00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:19,599 somehow some 905 00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,079 it is their jewishness that is you know 906 00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:24,560 somehow attacking 907 00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,359 like it's interesting because he put 908 00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,520 himself out there like i almost feel bad 909 00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:31,520 for him in that particular story because 910 00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:33,920 he wanted to stop world war one that's a 911 00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:37,599 good thing like he tried he paid money 912 00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,599 to put his money where his mouth is and 913 00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,680 like try to stop world war one like 914 00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:43,440 that's admirable i wish it would have 915 00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:45,280 worked that would have been really cool 916 00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,640 but it didn't 917 00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:48,480 and it was 918 00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:50,240 it's it's really funny because like i 919 00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,680 don't know there's something about 920 00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:54,000 americans like we just 921 00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:55,280 there's a certain 922 00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:56,880 subset of us where we're just like if we 923 00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:58,400 could just get a businessman in there 924 00:36:03,349 --> 00:35:59,760 and you know he'll just solve all the 925 00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,359 problems and every generation we keep we 926 00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:05,200 have at least one guy where we think 927 00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:06,400 that'll work 928 00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:08,880 but like it never does because it's 929 00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,359 always a lot more complicated henry ford 930 00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,760 thought he could stop in a world war by 931 00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:14,720 just like 932 00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:16,240 talking it out 933 00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,200 that is kind of delusional 934 00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:21,359 well i see i i don't know that that 935 00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:23,599 that's not the part that i would 936 00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:26,480 call out as delusional and there's just 937 00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:28,240 so many subtle things we could go down 938 00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:29,920 so many rabbit holes but i don't want to 939 00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:31,520 skip over the fact that talking about 940 00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:33,599 that a lot of the bankers who were 941 00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:36,960 really putting the financial squeeze on 942 00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:39,680 ford happened to be jewish 943 00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:42,800 that's like a historical fact so it's 944 00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:44,800 like when we talk about ford's 945 00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:46,480 anti-semitism 946 00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:49,040 we can't then leave out that other part 947 00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:50,880 of the story and we don't have to draw 948 00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:53,440 any conclusions about it it just means 949 00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:55,680 that that's who they were i'll tell you 950 00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:57,440 that you know the other story that i was 951 00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:58,880 gonna add to the 952 00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:00,240 kind of 953 00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:01,920 free-ranging discussion we're having 954 00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:04,240 here have you ever heard about 955 00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,320 florentia 956 00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:08,560 uh is that the henry ford 957 00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:09,520 community 958 00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:12,560 yeah yeah so so henry ford again the 959 00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,000 grandiosity which kind of i think is is 960 00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:18,079 a better indicator of this guy's 961 00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:21,040 headspace and how he gets into oh it's 962 00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:23,200 all about the jews let's give hitler 963 00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:25,200 hates the jews let's give hitler money 964 00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:27,359 kind of crazy 965 00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:28,800 line of logic 966 00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:31,839 he went down to brazil because he was 967 00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:34,720 being squeezed by he felt by the rubber 968 00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:36,320 companies and they were it was a 969 00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:38,720 monopoly and then the rubber collars 970 00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:40,800 were horrible what they did to people 971 00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:43,760 enslaving people and you know 972 00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:45,920 all that stuff so he says henry ford i 973 00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:48,320 got a better way i'll go down to brazil 974 00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:51,040 i'll create my own community 975 00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:52,560 and it'll be of course a rubber 976 00:37:58,230 --> 00:37:54,880 plantation that will serve us ford motor 977 00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:58,240 company but it'll also be a whole new 978 00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:00,960 way of living we'll teach these people 979 00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:02,800 these natives you know all this stuff 980 00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:05,760 and it's kind of a classic example of 981 00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:09,520 go getterism gone wild in that he goes 982 00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:10,960 and he tells all the people you gotta 983 00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:12,720 work nine to five 984 00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,040 and the people go dude 985 00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,440 we live in the tropics you can't work 986 00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,960 during the middle of the day it just 987 00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:21,200 doesn't work because nope got to be in 988 00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,960 there nine to five got you know because 989 00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:24,960 he was really into the schedule stuff 990 00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,839 and it the production goes way way down 991 00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:29,440 the other thing he says is you have to 992 00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:32,000 build proper houses like this and all 993 00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,680 the people go nah you don't want to 994 00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:35,280 build walls and stuff like that i mean 995 00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:37,200 it's really hot down here we need you 996 00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:38,400 know the 997 00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,160 the walls to be totally open so when you 998 00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:42,000 do get that br all this kind of common 999 00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:44,079 sense stuff he's like nope nope there's 1000 00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,599 only one way to do it and this is the 1001 00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:47,520 way to do it and the whole project just 1002 00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:49,520 fails miserably he loses millions of 1003 00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,280 dollars and then they 1004 00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:53,839 invent synthetic rubber and he's kind of 1005 00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:55,440 saves the day but 1006 00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:58,320 to me that's the parallel 1007 00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,240 that i draw you know what's so 1008 00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:01,920 interesting about that is just like 1009 00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:04,560 stopping world war one it shows henry 1010 00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:07,839 ford had good intentions up to a point 1011 00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:08,960 because 1012 00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:11,280 like you said the rubber industry was so 1013 00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,640 insanely 1014 00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,200 like brutalizing that like 1015 00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:17,760 literally any other type of production 1016 00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:20,160 of that rubber would have been 1017 00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,920 amazing like 1018 00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:23,760 the amount of people who died 1019 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:25,920 in the rubber trade during those years 1020 00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:26,880 was just 1021 00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,599 staggering and so like 1022 00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:31,760 it really almost shows you that like 1023 00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:34,480 henry ford did sort of have these 1024 00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,079 quasi-socialist 1025 00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,640 sort of ideas but then he fell into the 1026 00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:41,040 classic socialism of fools which is 1027 00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,400 anti-semitism 1028 00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:44,240 well yeah well i mean i just think 1029 00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:47,040 that's just one way to connect it you 1030 00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:49,599 know is the anti-semitism i think it 1031 00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,440 gets kind of 1032 00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:53,359 too much play way too much play but 1033 00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:55,040 that'll get into another discussion we 1034 00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:57,520 may or may not have and that is you know 1035 00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:58,720 what is this 1036 00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:01,359 thunder god jewish religion 1037 00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:03,520 thing all about to begin with why is 1038 00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,839 that drag through history and kind of 1039 00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:07,680 propped up well it's propped up because 1040 00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,480 of christianity well how solid is 1041 00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,640 christianity really how solid is the 1042 00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:14,800 notion of the historical jesus how solid 1043 00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:16,720 is the bible and all the rest of that 1044 00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:17,920 stuff 1045 00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:19,599 those are all topics we've explored in 1046 00:40:23,349 --> 00:40:21,599 depth on this show i don't think it's 1047 00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,359 appropriate for what we're talking about 1048 00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:25,359 right now but i think once you start to 1049 00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,200 unravel it i 1050 00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:29,280 i it just puts a whole different spin on 1051 00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:31,599 it it's like i i don't jewish i mean 1052 00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:34,640 what the it's kind of a goofy you know 1053 00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:36,960 obey all these rules spin around three 1054 00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,200 times don't eat this and that it's not 1055 00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:42,000 anything from a contemporary standpoint 1056 00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:44,880 we'd say wow that's they really got some 1057 00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:48,160 insights into the divine nature of the 1058 00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:51,200 human consciousness experience you know 1059 00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:53,839 not that any other religion would as 1060 00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:55,119 well or 1061 00:41:01,829 --> 00:40:58,880 falun gong or moonies or scientologists 1062 00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:01,839 but we never we never bring that to the 1063 00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:05,040 table when we talk about anti-semitism 1064 00:41:09,270 --> 00:41:07,040 you know what i mean it's just like oh 1065 00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:09,280 it's anti-semitic and oh my god that's 1066 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,760 led to the holocaust well yeah it did 1067 00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:13,440 because 1068 00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:16,640 crazy people can do crazy kind of stuff 1069 00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:18,240 and they can do it for long periods of 1070 00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,400 time so i don't know it's kind of a 1071 00:41:24,309 --> 00:41:22,079 kind of a rant but maybe you want to 1072 00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:24,319 jump in there with kind of part of that 1073 00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:26,760 because i think it does parse this 1074 00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:29,920 anti-semitism anti-jewish thing a little 1075 00:41:33,910 --> 00:41:31,920 bit differently 1076 00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,920 yeah i mean in the case of the nazis 1077 00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:34,880 like 1078 00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:37,200 they would scapegoat the jews and it 1079 00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:38,960 really a lot of the things they were 1080 00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,800 complaining about were not actually the 1081 00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:43,200 jews fault like i know that 1082 00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:46,079 is kind of an obvious statement but like 1083 00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,640 the the like the scapegoating function 1084 00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:50,800 it can really be any group it can be 1085 00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,599 pretty arbitrary sometimes but like 1086 00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:55,760 it feels good to blame people for things 1087 00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:56,800 and 1088 00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:59,440 it's all the like it's more effective if 1089 00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:01,440 you can blame them for some true things 1090 00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:03,760 right so like 1091 00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:05,839 but yeah i mean i agree it doesn't even 1092 00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:08,240 necessarily have to correspond that 1093 00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:09,920 closely with 1094 00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:12,720 you know reality honestly yeah and 1095 00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,359 that's not exactly where i was going so 1096 00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:17,760 jimmy you're a christian 1097 00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:21,040 uh yes i was actually raised mormon 1098 00:42:26,550 --> 00:42:23,440 oh you were raised mormon you know i saw 1099 00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,560 you have an episode on uh the farm with 1100 00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,720 my buddy steven snyder i haven't 1101 00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:30,720 listened to it yet and you guys get into 1102 00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:33,119 the mormonism thing very interesting 1103 00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:34,960 that you're mormon because 1104 00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:38,480 i mean do you think mormonism is a cult 1105 00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:41,280 uh well okay you know how like 1106 00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:42,880 sometimes you hear that sound bite 1107 00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:45,599 that's like every religion used to be a 1108 00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:48,480 cult and a cult you know 1109 00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:52,640 eventually becomes a religion which like 1110 00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:54,960 i get what they mean in a certain sense 1111 00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:56,240 but like 1112 00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,720 ancient cults didn't necessarily have 1113 00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:01,440 this like weird confluence of like 1114 00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:04,160 intelligence agencies and like 1115 00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:06,319 you know funding them and like 1116 00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:07,359 they weren't necessarily 1117 00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:10,240 instrumentalized in all of the same ways 1118 00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:11,839 i mean there were a few cases where you 1119 00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:13,599 could sort of make that claim actually 1120 00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:14,640 but 1121 00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:16,480 you know what i mean like 1122 00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:18,640 when people say cults they think 1123 00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:21,280 jonestown and then 1124 00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:24,160 that's not necessarily what they mean 1125 00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:25,119 like 1126 00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,520 religion says it 1127 00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,440 you know what i'm saying 1128 00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:33,599 i i do i just think it's it's kind of 1129 00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:35,040 tricky because 1130 00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:36,160 the 1131 00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:38,079 professors of religion 1132 00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,640 have kind of a different agenda in 1133 00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:42,880 processing that right because they can't 1134 00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:45,280 they have to function inside of 1135 00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:48,400 academia who has kind of has a hands-off 1136 00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,520 position 1137 00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:51,680 vis-a-vis christianity or an 1138 00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:54,079 uncomfortable kind of well we can't 1139 00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:56,160 totally throw them under the bus 1140 00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:58,400 i i guess the the point that i was kind 1141 00:44:02,550 --> 00:43:59,280 of 1142 00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:02,560 going towards before is it's not so much 1143 00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:04,240 that like the thing with the 1144 00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:07,040 anti-semitic thing and the scapegoating 1145 00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:10,000 with hitler the one part i think that is 1146 00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:12,079 more obvious that people point out is 1147 00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:14,000 that the only way they're able to do 1148 00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:15,760 that is because 1149 00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:19,280 there are factions of anti-semitism 1150 00:44:24,069 --> 00:44:22,560 prominent factions in every country 1151 00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:24,079 in europe 1152 00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:26,400 i just did an interview with a guy named 1153 00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:27,839 uh scott jaye 1154 00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:30,000 and he's written this book on 1155 00:44:35,829 --> 00:44:33,200 kind of conspiracy theories in academia 1156 00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:35,839 and he's orthodox jew he's very very 1157 00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:37,839 successful guy very successful banker in 1158 00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,480 new york guy's probably worth a billion 1159 00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:42,319 dollars i give him a ton of credit for 1160 00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,040 somebody who has that kind of 1161 00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,520 financial means but he's still engaged 1162 00:44:51,349 --> 00:44:49,280 in the same kind of dialogues that you 1163 00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:51,359 and i are in digging through this stuff 1164 00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:54,560 and his book is an expose on 1165 00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:58,160 kind of anti-semitic and uh anti-zionist 1166 00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:00,079 conspiracy theories 1167 00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:02,960 so like one of the really fascinating 1168 00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:06,720 points about his story is his father 1169 00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:10,000 his father is in lithuania and he's 14 1170 00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:12,960 years old and the nazis come in and 1171 00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:15,359 suddenly all the neighbors all the 1172 00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:17,359 people he's lived with for generations 1173 00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,560 his family has lived with for 1174 00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:20,560 generations go yep there it is there's 1175 00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:21,920 the jew 1176 00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:24,960 so they make it so easy for the nazis 1177 00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:27,440 because there's this long-standing 1178 00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:29,680 anti-semitism that's just barely beneath 1179 00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:32,480 the surface scott's dad is sent to 1180 00:45:37,510 --> 00:45:34,720 auschwitz he should have died by all 1181 00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:37,520 accounts it's a horrific horrific thing 1182 00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:38,240 so 1183 00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,319 this part of history that we just got to 1184 00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:42,240 make sure we understand they were 1185 00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,319 tapping into this thing that had been 1186 00:45:49,109 --> 00:45:46,480 repeated over and over and over again 1187 00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,119 through history 1492 the spanish you 1188 00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:51,760 know at the same time they send columbus 1189 00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:53,920 off on those boats they also send all 1190 00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:56,400 the jews too and say get the hell out of 1191 00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,280 our country and i would roll that back 1192 00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:00,480 all the way 1193 00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:03,599 to early christianity i mean the only 1194 00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,119 reason judaism stays around is kind of 1195 00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:09,760 as the punchline to the joke of who 1196 00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:12,880 killed jesus well it's the jews i mean 1197 00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:14,400 yeah it's kind of 1198 00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:16,240 it's kind of the romans yeah but it's 1199 00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:19,440 really the jews they are the antagonist 1200 00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,640 in the story which i think is a psyop i 1201 00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:24,560 don't want to get into we can get into 1202 00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:26,640 all that at a later time but i think 1203 00:46:32,109 --> 00:46:28,640 that's how history plays out and that's 1204 00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:32,119 why we forget how deeply embedded this 1205 00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:35,359 anti-semitism is i think that that's by 1206 00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:38,560 and large the case like they were put 1207 00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:40,480 they were sort of forced into a bunch of 1208 00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,599 different 1209 00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:43,440 professions and then 1210 00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:46,240 you know historically like 1211 00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:49,520 doctors dentists jewelers bankers like 1212 00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,960 there's obviously these certain 1213 00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,040 professions that they were sort of 1214 00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,599 forced into and then they just stayed in 1215 00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:57,839 those professions so yeah absolutely 1216 00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:01,119 okay so we've kind of drifted 1217 00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:03,839 a little bit from program to chill your 1218 00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:05,680 excellent show so 1219 00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:08,319 bring us back what are some of the other 1220 00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:10,079 storylines i don't want to say 1221 00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,680 storylines because this is history 1222 00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:13,920 history rediscovered and history 1223 00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,640 recalibrated what are some of the other 1224 00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:18,319 major threads or 1225 00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:20,319 or what you're most proud of in terms of 1226 00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:21,550 exploring on the show 1227 00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:22,640 [Music] 1228 00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:25,599 yeah so i did a 1229 00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:27,359 it might not sound that enticing to 1230 00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:30,400 listeners but i did a 12 part series on 1231 00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:34,000 crop steel which was in that rur valley 1232 00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:36,400 where basically the germans 1233 00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:39,040 took all of the ore they made steel 1234 00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:40,960 and i sort of like 1235 00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:44,079 lay that out across like 400 years and 1236 00:47:48,630 --> 00:47:45,520 like 1237 00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:48,640 map it on to different major events in 1238 00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:50,800 world history mainly world war one and 1239 00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:52,400 world war ii 1240 00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,359 and there's all kinds of interesting 1241 00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,440 interesting little subplots that you 1242 00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:00,240 know go along that 1243 00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:01,760 um i 1244 00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:04,400 also have done a lot of work examining 1245 00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:07,520 different authors and their intelligence 1246 00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:10,720 connections because if you 1247 00:48:16,549 --> 00:48:13,920 are a fan of like jd salinger 1248 00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:16,559 you know ireland william peter blatty 1249 00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,680 aldous huxley you know like you read 1250 00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:21,520 george orwell like you read these 1251 00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,920 authors and you think of their works and 1252 00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:25,599 you don't think of them as spies 1253 00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:28,400 necessarily but a lot of them were 1254 00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:30,880 and so i sort of thread the needle on 1255 00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:34,079 that and there's some really interesting 1256 00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:36,960 things that can be gleaned from looking 1257 00:48:40,390 --> 00:48:38,880 at their careers with an eye to 1258 00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:40,400 intelligence 1259 00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,359 absolutely you do tune into the 1260 00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:45,839 intelligence connection you also connect 1261 00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:49,200 it to business in a really smart way 1262 00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:51,280 that not a lot of people do and that's 1263 00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:52,079 that 1264 00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,000 you know our intelligence organizations 1265 00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:56,240 a lot of them started out as 1266 00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:58,640 business internal intelligence you know 1267 00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:01,119 spy on our competition make sure our 1268 00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:04,000 competition isn't spying on us and then 1269 00:49:08,710 --> 00:49:06,640 from a legal perspective the 1270 00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:08,720 the first couple episodes with uh 1271 00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:10,400 sullivan cromwell 1272 00:49:14,630 --> 00:49:12,559 and uh the dulles brothers 1273 00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:14,640 great great great stuff talk a little 1274 00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:16,720 bit about that as well 1275 00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:19,839 oh yeah i mean i think that 1276 00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:22,000 all the modern intelligence agencies 1277 00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:24,559 seem to be tied in with 1278 00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:27,040 banking and finance and that's 1279 00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:28,880 especially true for 1280 00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:31,839 great britain and the united states so 1281 00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:33,440 i did 1282 00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:36,400 a couple episodes on allen dulles john 1283 00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:39,760 foster dulles and the the uh 1284 00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:41,680 law firm that they worked for sullivan 1285 00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:43,119 and cromwell 1286 00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:48,000 still around they're in fact 1287 00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:50,319 doing deals on mergers and acquisitions 1288 00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,640 to this day that are 1289 00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:55,680 you know have a global impact but 1290 00:50:01,829 --> 00:49:59,040 sullivan and cromwell started off as the 1291 00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:01,839 law firm for different cliques of 1292 00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:04,079 basically slave owners 1293 00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:05,040 and 1294 00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:06,720 they never really 1295 00:50:13,589 --> 00:50:09,520 stopped being what i would characterize 1296 00:50:15,270 --> 00:50:13,599 as almost cartoonishly evil and 1297 00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:15,280 that is the 1298 00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,240 skull duggary that 1299 00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:20,079 basically the intelligence agencies 1300 00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,280 recruited 1301 00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:23,440 a bunch of these wall street lawyers to 1302 00:50:27,670 --> 00:50:25,359 do their spying 1303 00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:27,680 it's just it's interesting 1304 00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,240 and along the way you give us a much 1305 00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:32,559 deeper insight into 1306 00:50:36,309 --> 00:50:34,720 the dulles brothers so 1307 00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:36,319 as kind of a 1308 00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,319 10 000 foot view for those who aren't 1309 00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:40,559 familiar with it who are they and why 1310 00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:43,280 are they important why do you say at 1311 00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:45,520 some point they are probably two of the 1312 00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,079 most important 1313 00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:50,559 attorneys in in history in american 1314 00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:52,000 history of the last i don't know at 1315 00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,319 least 100 years 1316 00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,480 yeah i mean you'd really have to go to 1317 00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:58,400 either the founding fathers or lincoln 1318 00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:00,880 or something to find someone like 1319 00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,440 a lawyer who is more important to u.s 1320 00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:04,800 history 1321 00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:09,680 uh john foster well the dulles family 1322 00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:10,960 like they 1323 00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:12,240 occupied 1324 00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:13,440 important 1325 00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:16,160 positions in various presidential 1326 00:51:20,069 --> 00:51:17,760 administrations 1327 00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:20,079 but it was really john foster dulles and 1328 00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:22,640 his brother alan dulles who achieved 1329 00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:23,440 that 1330 00:51:27,990 --> 00:51:26,000 high level because alan dulles was 1331 00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:28,000 director of the cia and john foster 1332 00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:30,400 dulles i'm pretty sure was secretary of 1333 00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:32,559 state and together 1334 00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:35,200 like they controlled the covert and 1335 00:51:37,589 --> 00:51:36,640 overt 1336 00:51:40,230 --> 00:51:37,599 like 1337 00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:40,240 foreign policy for the united states for 1338 00:51:43,349 --> 00:51:41,440 like 1339 00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:43,359 decades essentially 1340 00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:45,440 it's just remarkable 1341 00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:46,960 yeah they certainly 1342 00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:49,280 influenced it heavily no doubt about it 1343 00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,800 and you know we so you do this long 1344 00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,480 thing you haven't even gotten up to the 1345 00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:54,720 kennedy assassination which i can't wait 1346 00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:56,480 you know because most people when they 1347 00:52:02,150 --> 00:51:58,800 think of dulles they think 1348 00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:02,160 jfk and uh again you're just 1349 00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:05,280 doing a marvelous job of filling in the 1350 00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,440 back story in a very 1351 00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,200 important way 1352 00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:11,920 at some point in one of the shows 1353 00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:14,400 you kind of speak to 1354 00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,680 where you'd like to see your show fit in 1355 00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:20,000 in terms of making a difference in terms 1356 00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:21,359 of 1357 00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:27,040 bit how do you see that jimmy 1358 00:52:30,829 --> 00:52:29,119 yeah i mean i think that 1359 00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:30,839 with history 1360 00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:33,680 like we don't 1361 00:52:38,069 --> 00:52:35,920 really have a framework to understand 1362 00:52:39,349 --> 00:52:38,079 the present if we don't understand 1363 00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:39,359 history 1364 00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:40,960 and 1365 00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:43,680 i think that a lot of times it's benign 1366 00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:45,839 but a lot of times it's you know bad 1367 00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:48,960 intense the history that we're fed is 1368 00:53:20,230 --> 00:52:50,880 a 1369 00:53:21,510 --> 00:53:20,240 problem solved 1370 00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:21,520 but 1371 00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:23,839 if we are really engaged with history 1372 00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:26,160 and trust me i understand it can be 1373 00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:27,680 exhausting 1374 00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:30,640 but like if we're engaged in history 1375 00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:31,760 then 1376 00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:34,079 we can start to understand what's 1377 00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:36,319 happening right now 1378 00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:38,720 and i don't mean that at like a facial 1379 00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:41,520 level i mean like if we really 1380 00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:44,640 try our best to understand 1381 00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:48,480 the ins and outs of something like 1382 00:53:51,589 --> 00:53:50,559 you know the periods of history like 1383 00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:51,599 that i 1384 00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:53,359 was looking at 1385 00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:55,040 then i 1386 00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,040 i'm like i'm very fond of like this 1387 00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:59,280 documentary that 1388 00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:01,119 it sounds pretty far afield from what 1389 00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:04,400 we're talking about but it's uh room 237 1390 00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:06,000 it's a 1391 00:54:09,430 --> 00:54:08,319 creative like 1392 00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:09,440 look at 1393 00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:12,800 the stanley kubrick movie the shining 1394 00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,000 and 1395 00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:16,720 in that they talk about you know the 1396 00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:18,480 little boy danny in the movie the 1397 00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:21,359 shining he's lost in this like maze and 1398 00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,040 he's running away from his father who's 1399 00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:26,000 going to kill him if he finds him 1400 00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:29,040 and it's only through tracing his steps 1401 00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:32,240 backwards and in walking backwards 1402 00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:33,040 he 1403 00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:44,720 following his own footsteps 1404 00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:45,520 and 1405 00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:47,839 humanity is essentially lost in a maze 1406 00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:50,400 of history where everywhere you turn 1407 00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:52,960 there are just massacres and 1408 00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:55,119 horrible events and 1409 00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:57,440 if we turn around or if we just stop we 1410 00:55:02,789 --> 00:54:59,839 might get axed to death by like our 1411 00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,799 maniac father like 1412 00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:04,240 so 1413 00:55:08,309 --> 00:55:06,559 we have to be engaged with history we 1414 00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:08,319 have to 1415 00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:10,319 trace it back if we ever want to make 1416 00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:13,359 any progress in this maze for humanity 1417 00:55:18,150 --> 00:55:16,160 essentially so that is my personal 1418 00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:18,160 philosophy on history i guess you could 1419 00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:19,200 say 1420 00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:21,680 wonderful i love how you connected it to 1421 00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:25,040 that excellent movie uh room 237 which i 1422 00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:26,880 really enjoyed too one of the things i 1423 00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:28,640 thought was interesting is when they're 1424 00:55:35,109 --> 00:55:31,440 talking about the possibility that one 1425 00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:35,119 of the themes that kubrick is trying to 1426 00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:36,799 get across to us in the movie the 1427 00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:39,200 shining is about 1428 00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:41,359 the holocaust of the native american 1429 00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:44,000 people that was done 1430 00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:46,880 in in our country but anyways i was 1431 00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:48,720 watching the movie with my wife and 1432 00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:50,480 she's like oh come on i think this is 1433 00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,480 definitely a stretch you know they're 1434 00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:54,880 saying that when they shoot the scene 1435 00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:57,359 and there's the baking soda cans in the 1436 00:56:01,990 --> 00:55:59,200 background and they all have an indian 1437 00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:02,000 chief on it oh come on that's just you 1438 00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:04,640 know it's just what's in the store room 1439 00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:06,559 and then the guy brings up the still 1440 00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:10,000 shot of kubrick actually 1441 00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:11,359 when they were doing the filming and 1442 00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:14,400 he's turning each can individually in 1443 00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:16,160 order to bring the indian right to the 1444 00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,640 front you go oh [\h__\h] it really is kind 1445 00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:22,240 of on that level do you remember that 1446 00:56:28,150 --> 00:56:25,839 part oh yeah absolutely like it's so fun 1447 00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:28,160 to watch like i've made different people 1448 00:56:32,870 --> 00:56:30,240 in my life watch that movie just to see 1449 00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:32,880 how they all process the information 1450 00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:35,440 because i've seen the full spectrum of 1451 00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:37,359 like responses from like 1452 00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:39,520 this is the most insane schizophrenic 1453 00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:41,520 movie i've ever seen to like i'm 1454 00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:45,200 completely sold on every theory right 1455 00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:47,520 and it's so interesting 1456 00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:50,000 so you know back if we can't just trace 1457 00:56:54,150 --> 00:56:51,839 back those steps 1458 00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:54,160 not to pick up on the 1459 00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:56,240 metaphorical thread that you laid out 1460 00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:57,119 there 1461 00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,640 the thing about history that you're 1462 00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:00,880 revealing is 1463 00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:03,920 what we normally hear kind of standard 1464 00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:05,200 trope is 1465 00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:07,359 if we don't understand history we're 1466 00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,040 doomed to repeat it 1467 00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:11,599 and what i hear you saying is 1468 00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:12,720 something 1469 00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:14,799 quite different and 1470 00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:17,280 i hear you saying if we don't understand 1471 00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:20,079 the parapolitical nature of all history 1472 00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:21,680 we're given 1473 00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:24,319 we don't even have a chance to process 1474 00:57:27,510 --> 00:57:26,559 it let alone repeat it 1475 00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:27,520 and 1476 00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:30,799 i i just wonder if there's 1477 00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:33,359 how that relates to you to 1478 00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:35,440 more contemporary issues and what's 1479 00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:37,839 going on today 1480 00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:41,119 oh yeah i mean i think it's a 1481 00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:44,000 i try not to blackpill or doom doom 1482 00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:47,760 people with any of my analysis and 1483 00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:50,640 to a certain extent i like to talk about 1484 00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:53,760 things several decades old because 1485 00:57:59,430 --> 00:57:56,640 for one thing a lot of sources are in 1486 00:58:02,789 --> 00:57:59,440 flux it can be hard to process a more 1487 00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:02,799 recent event you know very well 1488 00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:04,000 but 1489 00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:06,480 i try not to 1490 00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:09,040 talk too much about current events for 1491 00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:10,640 those reasons but 1492 00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:13,040 i've said this before i think that we 1493 00:58:17,430 --> 00:58:15,280 are in a period of history where there 1494 00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:17,440 have never been as many professional 1495 00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:20,640 liars and people whose literal job it is 1496 00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:23,040 to spread disinformation 1497 00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:25,359 like we've never had 1498 00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:29,760 this many people who full time put out 1499 00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:31,839 literally inaccurate information as 1500 00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:33,520 their job and 1501 00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:34,799 that has 1502 00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:38,240 such weird widespread implications for 1503 00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:41,200 like just consensus reality 1504 00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:42,160 like 1505 00:58:46,549 --> 00:58:44,480 there are people whose job it is to just 1506 00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:46,559 make things up about ufos there are 1507 00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:49,599 people whose job it is to 1508 00:58:53,990 --> 00:58:51,599 you know take your pick almost with 1509 00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:54,000 certain topics like somewhere there's 1510 00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:55,680 probably an intelligence agency 1511 00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:57,920 somewhere in the world trying to 1512 00:59:04,789 --> 00:59:01,760 influence you on something like 1513 00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:04,799 i'm very fond of the metaphor that james 1514 00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:06,559 jesus angleton head of 1515 00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:08,960 counterintelligence for the cia used to 1516 00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:12,000 say which was that you know he would 1517 00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:14,480 talk about a wilderness of mirrors 1518 00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:15,760 and 1519 00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:18,799 to a very large degree i feel like 1520 00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:20,960 we are all all of us trapped in a 1521 00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:24,720 wilderness of mirrors because 1522 00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:27,040 we are constantly confronted with 1523 00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:30,319 stories and people and hot takes that 1524 00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,359 don't correspond to reality and are 1525 00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:35,599 people reacting to a fake story in the 1526 00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:38,000 first place you know what i'm saying 1527 00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:39,359 it's very 1528 00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,040 it's a very strange state of affairs we 1529 00:59:44,549 --> 00:59:42,960 find ourselves in 1530 00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:44,559 i agree with you on a number of fronts 1531 00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,599 one 1532 00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,280 i like you 1533 00:59:50,309 --> 00:59:49,680 prefer history that has a little bit of 1534 01:00:07,030 --> 00:59:50,319 a 1535 01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:07,040 sunset it's 1536 01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:08,880 more prone to being 1537 01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:11,680 uh rewritten and uh irrecoverably 1538 01:00:15,990 --> 01:00:13,520 rewritten in a way that we can't get 1539 01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:16,000 back to it no one talks about 9 11 1540 01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:18,400 anymore it's like it's gone 1541 01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:20,160 it's like no one talks about building 1542 01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:22,799 seven what the heck happened with 1543 01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:24,960 building seven but you know one of the 1544 01:00:29,670 --> 01:00:27,040 points that that i thought would be 1545 01:00:31,829 --> 01:00:29,680 interesting to kind of talk about and i 1546 01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:31,839 don't even know that 1547 01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:34,720 i might even divide this 1548 01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:35,680 interview 1549 01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,400 into two sections because or two shows 1550 01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:42,400 and that's what i did i got two shows 1551 01:00:45,750 --> 01:00:44,240 with jimmy the second one is coming up 1552 01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:45,760 we get into some really interesting 1553 01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:47,920 stuff about the tinfoil left and about 1554 01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:50,559 world view collide with regard to ufos 1555 01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:52,640 and some other stuff that i just think 1556 01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:54,559 is fantastic and i haven't 1557 01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:57,119 seen slash heard that conversation 1558 01:01:02,230 --> 01:00:59,839 anywhere else i was really appreciative 1559 01:01:04,309 --> 01:01:02,240 of jimmy for engaging with it so you'll 1560 01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:04,319 find that in part two but there's still 1561 01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,839 some more to go 1562 01:01:10,390 --> 01:01:08,160 in part one i returned to 1563 01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:10,400 program to chill in his work with the 1564 01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:13,040 nazi history and how we're to understand 1565 01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:16,079 it here goes 1566 01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:18,960 okay jimmy fantastic i really really 1567 01:01:24,069 --> 01:01:20,960 appreciate the way you've kind of 1568 01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,079 allowed us to go places and do the world 1569 01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:26,079 view collide kind of thing in an 1570 01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:28,640 interesting way and i hope we've 1571 01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:30,960 turned people on to your excellent show 1572 01:01:34,710 --> 01:01:32,640 because you really got to check out 1573 01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:34,720 program to chill i guarantee if you if 1574 01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:37,599 you are into history at all like i am 1575 01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:38,640 you're going to love this because you're 1576 01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:40,079 going to discover a ton of stuff that 1577 01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:42,079 you didn't know before 1578 01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:44,720 tell me this though if we were going to 1579 01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:46,079 connect 1580 01:01:51,510 --> 01:01:48,960 what we know now about 1581 01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:51,520 the nazi operation which it was in its 1582 01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:54,240 connection to government big business 1583 01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:55,440 big money 1584 01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:58,799 and big politics in italy and in great 1585 01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,799 britain and in other places 1586 01:02:04,829 --> 01:02:02,720 but if we were going to particularly 1587 01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:04,839 connect it to big 1588 01:02:10,390 --> 01:02:07,599 business what are the corollaries with 1589 01:02:12,870 --> 01:02:10,400 today who is 1590 01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:12,880 the siemens so nazi party you know you 1591 01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:16,000 can look at uh bear or ig farben or 1592 01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:17,680 siemens or you could go through the list 1593 01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:21,359 of all the people all the companies that 1594 01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:23,920 just gouged or that benefited 1595 01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:25,520 tremendously 1596 01:02:29,430 --> 01:02:27,760 from this operation that was the nazi 1597 01:02:31,589 --> 01:02:29,440 party i think 1598 01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:31,599 we are in the middle of 1599 01:02:36,309 --> 01:02:34,559 such a great reset now today and a lot 1600 01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:36,319 of people have you said it made it 1601 01:02:39,029 --> 01:02:38,240 particularly relevant because it feels 1602 01:02:41,270 --> 01:02:39,039 like 1603 01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:41,280 a fourth reich thing so let's go out and 1604 01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:43,920 speculate a little bit you know who is 1605 01:02:50,950 --> 01:02:46,960 siemens today who is 1606 01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:50,960 bear today uh uh you know and uh 1607 01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:52,799 what are your thoughts 1608 01:02:58,470 --> 01:02:55,920 yeah i mean i think that if you look and 1609 01:03:01,750 --> 01:02:58,480 it's not exactly hidden knowledge you 1610 01:03:04,069 --> 01:03:01,760 look at who's benefiting 1611 01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:04,079 covid like obviously first and foremost 1612 01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:06,960 we're thinking pharmaceutical companies 1613 01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:08,319 but 1614 01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:11,200 if you look at certain 1615 01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,160 firms that were funding you know 1616 01:03:19,270 --> 01:03:16,559 work from home technologies certain 1617 01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:19,280 things basically everything that has 1618 01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:22,000 shot up in value over the past several 1619 01:03:24,549 --> 01:03:22,880 years 1620 01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:24,559 because of kovid 1621 01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,359 i think that it's fair to question some 1622 01:03:32,470 --> 01:03:29,280 of these things 1623 01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:32,480 um i think that we have also seen an 1624 01:03:37,029 --> 01:03:34,079 increase and 1625 01:03:39,349 --> 01:03:37,039 there's a almost a market increase in 1626 01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:39,359 capital accumulation 1627 01:03:43,109 --> 01:03:42,240 from the before the pandemic and you 1628 01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:43,119 know 1629 01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:46,160 now and basically 1630 01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:47,839 this has always been the case like the 1631 01:03:53,430 --> 01:03:51,200 rich generally get rich quicker than 1632 01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:53,440 you know the rest of us but like 1633 01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:55,760 there are specific policies being put in 1634 01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:57,599 place that are squeezing the middle 1635 01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:59,760 class squeezing small business owners 1636 01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:00,720 and 1637 01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:03,520 trust me like i am not exactly 1638 01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:05,520 crying for the small business owner but 1639 01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:07,280 i don't think it's healthy for america 1640 01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:08,960 for those 1641 01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:11,760 to dry up you know what i'm saying like 1642 01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:13,599 oh i mean i i know what you're saying 1643 01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:15,599 but i am crying for the small business 1644 01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:17,920 owner that is the best chance 1645 01:04:21,510 --> 01:04:19,760 yeah and it's really the best chance 1646 01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:21,520 that we have as 1647 01:04:28,789 --> 01:04:25,039 uh america in any sense of whatever that 1648 01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:28,799 means continuing again to me it's about 1649 01:04:34,630 --> 01:04:32,400 class mobility and the consolidation of 1650 01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:34,640 wealth at the super super elite level 1651 01:04:37,510 --> 01:04:36,160 which is really beyond even talking 1652 01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:37,520 about because it's not wealth at that 1653 01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:39,520 point it's really about control and it's 1654 01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:41,599 about social engineering it's not about 1655 01:04:44,069 --> 01:04:42,480 money 1656 01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:44,079 their goal 1657 01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:47,680 is to limit class mobility they don't 1658 01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:50,000 want they want everyone on universal 1659 01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:51,839 basic income what are you going to do 1660 01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:54,400 when you're on ubi you are and yet so 1661 01:04:57,589 --> 01:04:55,760 many people on the left think that's 1662 01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:57,599 like the way out just give me enough 1663 01:05:01,750 --> 01:05:00,240 food give me enough water it's like 1664 01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:01,760 bro 1665 01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:04,400 you will have no chance in that thing so 1666 01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:06,960 i think it's about class mobility but 1667 01:05:12,309 --> 01:05:08,880 what kind of concerns me 1668 01:05:14,470 --> 01:05:12,319 is that to me it seems obvious when 1669 01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:14,480 google is siemens 1670 01:05:18,069 --> 01:05:15,520 you know 1671 01:05:21,589 --> 01:05:18,079 twitter to a certain extent twitter i 1672 01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:21,599 mean what the the media is so completely 1673 01:05:25,670 --> 01:05:24,000 controlled towards one message it's 1674 01:05:28,630 --> 01:05:25,680 ridiculous and oh but now we're gonna 1675 01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:28,640 get a another voice cause trump has a 1676 01:05:33,430 --> 01:05:30,640 billion dollars and he's gonna buy the 1677 01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:33,440 other thing do you think trump is truly 1678 01:05:37,589 --> 01:05:35,280 an independent 1679 01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:37,599 kind of voice there i don't 1680 01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:39,200 the idea that 1681 01:05:43,029 --> 01:05:40,240 google 1682 01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:43,039 facebook amazon moderna 1683 01:05:46,870 --> 01:05:45,280 these are companies that for the most 1684 01:05:49,510 --> 01:05:46,880 part are kind of 1685 01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:49,520 supported or championed by people i see 1686 01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:52,799 on on the left or kind of the social 1687 01:05:57,750 --> 01:05:55,359 wokeness kind of folks they don't the 1688 01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:57,760 social wokeness folks they don't see 1689 01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:01,520 facebook as a threat they don't see uh 1690 01:06:05,990 --> 01:06:04,240 twitter as a threat they see it as gosh 1691 01:06:08,309 --> 01:06:06,000 darn it they're doing the right thing 1692 01:06:10,150 --> 01:06:08,319 because they're not letting those crazy 1693 01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:10,160 ideas out there those dangerous and 1694 01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:11,680 crazy ideas 1695 01:06:16,829 --> 01:06:13,920 what an op i mean it's a complete op 1696 01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:16,839 that's the parallel to me with the 1697 01:06:21,670 --> 01:06:18,480 nazism 1698 01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:21,680 yeah absolutely like i agree with you on 1699 01:06:27,029 --> 01:06:24,160 ubi like it's 1700 01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:27,039 the way it would be implemented would be 1701 01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:29,200 to undercut 1702 01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:31,119 people's ability to 1703 01:06:35,349 --> 01:06:32,960 you know rebel or 1704 01:06:37,190 --> 01:06:35,359 basically pose any meaningful 1705 01:06:39,430 --> 01:06:37,200 you know resistance to 1706 01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:39,440 the people implementing the policy in 1707 01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:41,280 the first place 1708 01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:42,319 and 1709 01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:43,920 yeah like 1710 01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:45,359 there's no reason to trust tech 1711 01:06:48,390 --> 01:06:46,559 companies 1712 01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:48,400 they 1713 01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:50,400 uh do not have people's best interests 1714 01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:51,920 in mind and 1715 01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:54,640 to go one step further like they're all 1716 01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:56,960 basically astroturfed by darpa in the 1717 01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:58,880 first place so like 1718 01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:00,880 they were never a meaningful challenge 1719 01:07:03,910 --> 01:07:02,720 they're just an extension of the soft 1720 01:07:06,230 --> 01:07:03,920 power of 1721 01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:06,240 essentially the pentagon 1722 01:07:10,309 --> 01:07:08,160 like network of businesses in the first 1723 01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:10,319 place so it's like it's all one big 1724 01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:12,400 network essentially i'd agree with that 1725 01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:14,400 to a certain i'm just reluctant to take 1726 01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:16,400 that too far because i think 1727 01:07:20,710 --> 01:07:18,640 it's like the mk ultra thing when you 1728 01:07:23,670 --> 01:07:20,720 take it too far and you start seeing all 1729 01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:23,680 of it as some organized no there are 150 1730 01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:25,760 mk ultra programs spreading through all 1731 01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:26,960 these universities and there are all 1732 01:07:30,470 --> 01:07:28,000 these different people who have 1733 01:07:32,390 --> 01:07:30,480 different spins on what it should be and 1734 01:07:35,349 --> 01:07:32,400 i think the same thing with the darpa 1735 01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:35,359 and the google and like if you're if 1736 01:07:39,109 --> 01:07:36,960 you're some guy at darpa or if you're 1737 01:07:42,069 --> 01:07:39,119 some guy in some intelligence agency of 1738 01:07:44,789 --> 01:07:42,079 course you want to have an in with 1739 01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:44,799 google you want to have an in with all 1740 01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:46,480 these companies but that doesn't mean 1741 01:07:50,950 --> 01:07:49,039 you control them completely any more 1742 01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:50,960 than the history that you reveal to us 1743 01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:53,280 about hitler is very telling right 1744 01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:55,760 they had a connection with hitler but 1745 01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:57,920 from what i learned from you 1746 01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:00,880 i think it's also wrong to think that 1747 01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:03,280 hitler from the very beginning from the 1748 01:08:10,549 --> 01:08:08,240 early 1920s is somehow a puppet of some 1749 01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:10,559 agency and his you know that he is 1750 01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:12,880 totally doing this under the direction 1751 01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:13,680 of 1752 01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:15,760 some guys in a smoky dark room in the 1753 01:08:20,709 --> 01:08:17,759 back what are your thoughts 1754 01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,719 yeah with something like google facebook 1755 01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:22,560 you know they're it's almost like you're 1756 01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:24,319 throwing you like you jump 1757 01:08:29,110 --> 01:08:26,400 like darpa is johnny appleseed throwing 1758 01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:29,120 seeds everywhere and you know some of 1759 01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,640 them aren't going to grow you know some 1760 01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:32,239 of them will and then 1761 01:08:38,229 --> 01:08:33,040 you 1762 01:08:40,390 --> 01:08:38,239 relationship there and they will never 1763 01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:40,400 forget that but they won't always do 1764 01:08:45,269 --> 01:08:43,600 what you say and vice versa like 1765 01:08:48,309 --> 01:08:45,279 it's yeah it would be wrong to say that 1766 01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:48,319 like darpa controls google but like 1767 01:08:54,229 --> 01:08:51,279 you know but like google was essentially 1768 01:08:55,749 --> 01:08:54,239 taking research done at 1769 01:08:58,309 --> 01:08:55,759 universities 1770 01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:58,319 and they basically privatized it and 1771 01:09:03,189 --> 01:09:00,480 then they do then they are basically 1772 01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:03,199 beholden to those 1773 01:09:07,669 --> 01:09:06,000 you know organizations and they share 1774 01:09:09,749 --> 01:09:07,679 the data with 1775 01:09:12,550 --> 01:09:09,759 government bureaucracies you know and so 1776 01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:12,560 and so on and so on same with facebook 1777 01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:13,520 you know 1778 01:09:18,789 --> 01:09:16,960 specifically that life log program like 1779 01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:18,799 it's almost more transparent there but 1780 01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:22,319 like yeah i agree it's not a one-to-one 1781 01:09:26,390 --> 01:09:23,600 control thing 1782 01:09:28,390 --> 01:09:26,400 jimmy what's coming up for us on program 1783 01:09:30,870 --> 01:09:28,400 to chill there's so many given what 1784 01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:30,880 you've done so far there's so much more 1785 01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,560 you could do 1786 01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:34,560 where are you going to take us 1787 01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:37,440 well i'm currently taking the listeners 1788 01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:40,239 on a ride into japan where we are 1789 01:09:45,669 --> 01:09:42,400 looking at fascinating 1790 01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:45,679 imperial japan so we're talking like the 1791 01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:49,120 colonization of korea manchuria china 1792 01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:50,960 we're going to look at japan's bio 1793 01:09:54,149 --> 01:09:52,560 weapons program 1794 01:09:56,709 --> 01:09:54,159 we're going to look at their banking 1795 01:10:00,870 --> 01:09:58,390 the yakuza 1796 01:10:03,510 --> 01:10:00,880 different right-wing organizations 1797 01:10:06,229 --> 01:10:03,520 different cults that they funded so 1798 01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,239 it's going to be a pretty wild ride 1799 01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:08,640 it's i gotta say it's an absolutely 1800 01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:11,280 great great choice on your part if you 1801 01:10:15,669 --> 01:10:13,440 don't mind me saying because again it 1802 01:10:17,110 --> 01:10:15,679 takes us out of this 1803 01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:17,120 cultural 1804 01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:19,600 myopic framework that we always want to 1805 01:10:24,149 --> 01:10:22,560 apply on things and it's like when it 1806 01:10:26,470 --> 01:10:24,159 and this is your intent because you said 1807 01:10:29,030 --> 01:10:26,480 you tell us that it is but when the same 1808 01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:29,040 patterns start emerging again you go 1809 01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:31,840 oh [\h__\h] you mean it's really not just 1810 01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:34,560 about the nazis you know 1811 01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:36,000 yeah 1812 01:10:39,030 --> 01:10:37,600 exactly like 1813 01:10:40,870 --> 01:10:39,040 japan like 1814 01:10:42,870 --> 01:10:40,880 americans sometimes think japan 1815 01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:42,880 functions differently for some reason 1816 01:10:47,590 --> 01:10:45,600 but like it really isn't that different 1817 01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:47,600 from germany in terms of like the 1818 01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,880 political 1819 01:10:53,189 --> 01:10:50,880 like like 1820 01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:53,199 body politic and like the difference how 1821 01:10:59,030 --> 01:10:55,360 the economy interacts with the politics 1822 01:11:01,189 --> 01:10:59,040 and that is also true for america like 1823 01:11:02,149 --> 01:11:01,199 the same industries tend to 1824 01:11:05,110 --> 01:11:02,159 fund 1825 01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:05,120 certain wings of politics and it's like 1826 01:11:08,709 --> 01:11:06,880 it's been pretty consistent over many 1827 01:11:10,070 --> 01:11:08,719 decades so it's just really interesting 1828 01:11:11,669 --> 01:11:10,080 to flesh that out 1829 01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:11,679 well best of luck with that you have a 1830 01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,640 huge fan in me and i can't wait for 1831 01:11:17,669 --> 01:11:16,000 the next episode and where you're going 1832 01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:17,679 to go with that and 1833 01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:19,440 when you get around to talking about the 1834 01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:21,360 dulles brothers and their involvement 1835 01:11:26,870 --> 01:11:24,480 with jfk and the missile crisis 1836 01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:26,880 it's something i can't wait to hear 1837 01:11:30,390 --> 01:11:29,280 folks make sure you check out program to 1838 01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:30,400 chill 1839 01:11:36,229 --> 01:11:32,080 jimmy fallon gong 1840 01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:36,239 hey jimmy any uh plans for any other 1841 01:11:41,910 --> 01:11:38,719 media ventures books 1842 01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,920 other uh things that you might be up to 1843 01:11:46,870 --> 01:11:44,159 uh not in the near future i've thought 1844 01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:46,880 about writing a book but maybe maybe one 1845 01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:49,120 day i would like to but 1846 01:11:53,830 --> 01:11:51,440 nothing in the works right now 1847 01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:53,840 great great well uh it's been great 1848 01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:55,760 having you on spend a couple hours maybe 1849 01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:57,280 we'll break it into two maybe i'll leave 1850 01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,679 it as one but thanks so much for joining 1851 01:12:03,110 --> 01:12:01,360 me on skeptico 1852 01:12:04,790 --> 01:12:03,120 thank you very much 1853 01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:04,800 thanks again to jimmy fallon gone for 1854 01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:06,960 joining me today on skeptico if you 1855 01:12:09,669 --> 01:12:08,320 liked it remember to stick around for 1856 01:12:12,070 --> 01:12:09,679 part two i think you'll find it 1857 01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:12,080 interesting the one question i t up from 1858 01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:13,679 this interview is 1859 01:12:17,990 --> 01:12:15,600 go do a little research and see if you 1860 01:12:20,550 --> 01:12:18,000 think jimmy's right about the blindness 1861 01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:20,560 thing the mesmerism thing 1862 01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:21,840 it's a fact that you ought to be able to 1863 01:12:26,229 --> 01:12:23,280 wrestle down to the ground one way or 1864 01:12:28,550 --> 01:12:26,239 another and it's important regarding 1865 01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:28,560 retracing this history i think isn't it 1866 01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:30,400 isn't it important 1867 01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:32,320 let me know your thoughts plenty more to 1868 01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:37,210 come as always take care and bye for now